We definitely need a part two! The conversation felt like it was just hitting its stride when it ended. Let's explore the other side of the coin: people who wouldn't consider marrying within their own tribe. This could be due to cultural practices that restrict women's roles and perpetuate unfair treatment under the guise of tradition.
There is a political notion that kenyans believe that economically luo are really struggling and kikuyus are really thriving The irony is i have interracted with well to do luo's who believe they are oppressed and poor kikuyus who think they are superior. 😅 the power of politics !!! Part 2 definitely enjoyed the conversation
It's not entirely a political notion, there's some truth to it. The Gikuyu elite class thrives more and if there's an actual Kenyan middle class, if it exists, it is saturated by Gikuyus. HDI wise and GDP per Capita, Central Kenyan counties lead. They have ruled Kenya for 35 years, it comes with perks, and they are better off than most Kenyan communities.
@NileGoddess How many Luos own businesses like Kikuyus? Banks, schools. Nyeri is 153km from the capital, yet the living standards of this sleepy town is higher than Kisumu. Almost RUclips girlies you watch as a Kenyan are Kikuyu. Dominating certain aspects of the Kenyan state comes with its perks.
Love the discussion so far! To Sharon’s point on dating Kikuyu’s in the UK, I’ve been living in the UK for nearly 8 years now and 90% of the Kenyans I run into, have been Kikuyu. 😂 To the extent that when I meet Kenyans in the UK, my first assumption is that they are probably Kikuyus. I think Dez’s statistics point on Kikuyus being the majority in Nairobi, also stands in the UK.
We definitely need a part 2🎉. This is the first time I'm listening to such an important and sensitive matter being discussed in such a beautiful and open way. Thank you Jules and Sharon❤❤
So glad to see you guys covering this topic. This is really important, and I loved that you were able to clear up some dodgy myths and stereotypes. I feel that there was room for a more nuanced discussion on why people end up gravitating towards their own, or 'allied' ethnic groups. This would have possibly led to a more honest discussion on tribalism beyond 'oh I only notice tribalism during elections'. First of all, ethnicity in Kenya, (like in any other society), intersects with socioeconomic status, political power, religion and other demographic factors. For example, if you think about Kikuyu's proximity to the colonial administration, there were certain benefits that have to be honestly evaluated. One mentioned was the fact that Nairobi is in Central Province. Post independence these benefits culminated in greater access to the state apparatus and therefore greater political and economic power. It also offered more opportunities to pursue education and professional development ( both at home and abroad). It is precisely because of this privilege that the middle, upper-middle and upper classes in Kenya are predominantly Kikuyu - (or Luo or Kalenjin, not picking on anyone just using this example) . And being that we tend to date people within our social circles - who we went to school with, church with, whose parents are friends with ours etc - it makes sense that Sharon for example has 'inadvertently' only dated Kikuyus. If we add tribalism and human nature (we stick to the familiar and create in-groups and outgroups) this means we can end up 'unconsciously unaware' of how homogenous our social circles are. As someone who has grown up as a product of an intertribal union (not Kikuyu or Luo), this was not lost on me as a grew up. It is very easy to see how these structures operate when most of your classmates are from the big 3 (Kikuyu, Luo, Kalenjin) and you are not. These demographic patterns are not coincidental, but a reflection of the inequities created during colonialism and which were entrenched in the post-independence era.
Would be great to have this conversation with a Maasai among the panelists.They are the most culturally intact community and would have totally different dimensions to this
Wueh i feel like this episode was made squarely for me. What i faced n still facing is designer, n the devil is a liar.... he manages to give you episodes that make such things seem reality especially during conflict in the rship. Ghai mi i kent mazee
I agree with Sharon,tribalism isn't something that comes in by choice you just find yourself naturally relating and been attracted to a specific tribe , because that's home ,you understand each other because you basically have the same cultural background. It's different for Dez and he can't quite agree with Sharon because for him growing up he grew in a diversified home so for him there existed no tribal lines
This was a very interesting conversation. Would really love to hear a part 2. I’m a non- Kenyan African who married a Kikuyu man after meeting overseas. Met a lot of Kenyans since we started dating and was really surprised at how much tribes/ tribalism plays a role in every day life. Would love to hear more.
Sharon was left hanging when she asked about consent... I was waiting for that to be clarified, because its one of the things we grew up hearing. part 2 please, because the assumption that if a particular tribe is in power the whole tribe gets an untapped access to wealth and money straight from statehouse still puzzles me. As only those in the actual appointed posts benefit as we are witnessing with the floods, taxes, poor roads, high cost of living etc
Sure no tribe benefits as a result of their leader occupying StateHouse but Kenyans still vote and marry along tribal lines,tribalism is a curse of many generations to come🥺🥺🥺
I'm loving the episode so far but lemme do a fact check: GEMA is Gikuyu, Embu, Meru Association (GEMA). This is such an amazing conversation we should continue having, especially for us to normalize these conversations and not just having them during elections. Please do a Part 2 with Dez and Magunga and maybe make this an ongoing conversations
What are the origins of GEMA? E.g. who first came up with the term, or was there a real association(like a political one at some point?)? This is an important conversation that can go in so many directions. There's the political aspect of course . There's also the legacy of colonialism because even though traditionally tribes had conflict, colonialism created even more division. Finally there is the idea that tribe just like race is a social construct. But the differences we feel in whatever group we belong are so strong we view the "others" as almost a different species.
@@susanw497 GEMA is actually a geo-political group. The geography helped include and exclude other communities especially during the political/election season. Yes we should definitely keep this conversation going.
WOW! I did that Sharon test “tell me your luo friend” and indeed I can off the top of my head name luo, kikuyu, kamba, kalenjin (grew up in Eld) and obviously luhya (that’s what I am) and a little bit even miji kenda friends picked up over the years at like school and work and church. So interesting that it’s possible that most of someone’s friends can be people from their tribe without that person intentionally filtering out the rest of the tribes…
Coming late to this. I also grew up in Nai & have countable Kikuyu friends. Because I surrounded myself from Primary school with other tribes so yes you should be intentional in bringing diversity as it also helps you extend cultural knowledge & also helps build your understanding of your own culture
I loved the episode. I think us mixed tribal babies, we are more open minded because we have two sides, so tribal issues are not something we look at in friendships and relationships because of how we were raised.
As a kikuyu babe dating and almost getting married to a luo man, the journey has been easy-going. Both our parents are open-minded and trust our decision to do life together. One of the major family elements I noticed was that of communism as simple as eating together like we cook for 20 people when we go to their shags. All in all, I've come to appreciate the differences, and we've set boundaries both ways. Ps:we watched the conversation with him he thinks that the guy didnt like Esther as some of the things were a lie.
I even had to do the visual episode today... I've always dated within my tribe only recently have I branched out and I can't help but do it from a point of impending doom. Like will this work, will I be accepted. Is it even serious, are we just passing time waiting for the 'ideal' partner. I remember being younger and thinking I'd never date outside my tribe cause I'd feel left out of and targeted in communication. Especially from a lady's POV the acceptance from your partners side seems to carry heavy weight. Can't wait to hear if it's the same for men. It's really alot we are glad someone is talking about it.
Food for thought- there are podcasts covering Emotional Intelligence that can help in self -management and being self-aware, especially in professional settings, and when things go south in our daily lives. Follow the EI podcast by Angela Mwihaki, and so many insightful conversations.
9:18 - It really is related today; right there with you, Sharon. Is this really strength or are we leaving room for further narcissistic abuse? If, by any chance Esther is reading, the gents are right. We’re wired to provide and protect. Can’t do both at the same time all the time and yes, cultures must be respected, but it is also true that ‘manners maketh man.’
Nairobi was not Maasai land, only. It was Gikuyu, Kamba, and Maasai land. In fact, if we look at colonial documents, the Brits recorded land transfers from Gikuyus to themselves when 'buying up' Nairobi. A lot of those land titles of what came to be Nairobi very early on had a lot of Gikuyu names. Its just cliche to say Nairobi is Maasais land, but its complicated.
The reason it's said Nairobi was Maasai land was first because of the name, kikuyus also occupied major environs next to Nairobi like Kiambu, Juja and areas along Waiyaki way. The Maasai were mostly pastoralists and thus did not reside at any particular place for long and that's why you'll find that maasai are said to have many places named in words that trace back to their language.
@@kafunkyy Parts of Mt Kenya are in the Maasai language. i.e, Lenana Peak. was Lenana Peak Maasai land? Some places in Nairobi that have Maasai names was simply because the white man used the Maasai name for naming purposes and means nothing about the people who lived there.
@@thedante7722 Like you said its complicated because what not been considered is that there was a large population of Kikuyu speaking Masaai's who extended from areas as far as Nyeri through Nairobi , all the way to parts of Kajiado , there also a sizeable population of Maa speaking kikuyu - During precolonial times the language one spoke was not a very important marker of their ethnic identity.
First things forward, ive been raised not tribal. For me every one is equal the difference is a spectrum of colors which for me was beautiful. Long story short, Im still healing from the trauma of dating a keiyo for over 3 years. Guy impregnated fellow tribe and dumped me like hot charcoal. From experience, the situation has conditioned me to my tribe or no relationship at all.
Born and raised in Umoja here. From a Luyo dad and Kikuyu mum. Ethnicity is just one part of your identity, tuko na mingi (age, sex, race, wealth, occupation, nationality, character, income) .in high school I saw people from across ethnic groups and races. midway through uni I decided that anytime I'm single, I'll interact with everyone who I vibe with but I only get to know a lady more if they're from luo/luhya nyanza (I'm from Butere). I noticed that relationships where the lady is from the region I'm from are more deep, family to family interactions flow better. ikiwa ivi pia we're able to relate in terms of region specific challenges, family challenges, etc. Si ati disagreements aren't there or that we will be a good match. kumbuka if you're born and raised in a multicultural place like Nairobi, when things get serious with someone, you'll want to be there for each other, travel to each other's ancestral places, relocate from time to time. It's easier knowing that you're optimistic going where she's from and she's optimistic going where you're from. basically agree with Esther from story ya Jules, ethnic differences make things harder na kaa si ivo, wasee wengi wako na perception that things will be harder mkifanya inter ethnic union boundaries lazima whether you're going interethnic or intraethnic
Aaah, Esther and Jonathan just didn't enforce boundaries in their union. Also, I don't see any cultural connotation to this brother story. She didn't share the actual cause of this disfunctionality in their marriage.
I am dating this guy that I really love but I know we won't get married because his from a different tribe and on top of that he is a Muslim and I am Christian, 😭💔
Allow me to say this having experienced the religious difference. Please leave that man alone... he won't marry you unless you convert and he knows so no matter how much he says or shows he loves you you guys won't end up togethet
It's primarily Southern Cushitic, followed by waves of Eastern Cushites like Oromos. If you take a DNA test, this DNA will cluster close to Amharas, but most of the time, it won't be directly from them. Every Central Kenya Bantu has this Cushitic DNA to varying degrees, and this includes Kambas. GEMA/Thagicus/Central Kenya Bantus started mixing with these groups before they settled in the Mountain/split into current groups.
@@thedante7722 All major populations in Kenya not just central kenya have some measure of southern cushitic ancestry -- its just matter of degree. Central Kenyans average 30% , western Kenyans 5-9% , Nilohamtics( masaai,Kalejin,samburu) depending on groupings as small as clans range from 30-60%. Southern Cushite's and NIlohamites are the oldest inhabitants of present day Kenya - so migrating bantu and Luo societies would have definitely intermarried with the locals they found. Basically people like Somali's whom our law enforcement harasses about citizenship issues are more indigenous to Kenya than all Bantu and Luo groups.
@@commonsense6797 Somalis are not indigenous and don't come into Kenya en mass untill the 1800s. They're called Eastern Cushites for a reason, and Somaliods like Rendilles, that are barely 100k, are not Somalis. And them being harassed is besides the point. They're a threat to the Kenyan identity and can ravage the country with their Wahhabist clanist mentality just as they ravaged the Bantus, Oromos and Swahilis in Jubaland and turned once a aile of co-existence into the hellhole that it is. "Police harass Somalis" Bantus in Jubaland have endured far worse despite having been there for the longest than Somalis. That identity is problematic and should be erased. There was no Somali in the South before the 1800s.
@@commonsense6797 Somalis are barely indigenous. We found Southern Cushites, and have been mixed with them for as far back as 1000 years. My Cushitic DNA has more claim to this land than a Somali from the North, or Samaale from Yemen as they have it in their mythology.
@@thedante7722I am assuming 'we' is central highland Bantu . if you follow migratory patterns ; by the time Bantu arrive in the central highlands , southern Cushitic's and Sudanic Nilotics have been completely integrated - basically the people they find are mostly a hybrid between Nilotics & southern Cushite's ; pure southern Cushite's at this time are only found in Tanzania - groups like Iraqw. The central highland Bantu get the southern cushitic component of their Dna more through intermarriage with with Nilohamites than anything else -- that's why the resultant cultural influence on the Bantu like circumcision(of both sexes) ,hair styling, age set grouping etc is Nilohamitic culture, not southern cushitic culture. Meanwhile the presence of eastern Cushite's (Somali etc) has always been there in Kenya -- likely not in the central highlands but neighboring areas - not surprising because both share a common Cushitic ancestor. Somali's predate Bantu's and Nyanza Luo's in Kenya - that's just a fact .
On pseudo accounts; it is an interesting topic for me, because I created this email I use here with a generic name so that I could hide my real identity. I work for an intergovernmental organisation, and what I write and say could be used against me in my job or derail my future opportunities, since the job requires diplomacy at all times, in and out of work. However, I am against pseudo accounts for trolling creators and other users.
Inter tribal dating is not a major problem like it used to be. Especially with the larger tribes, majority of Millenials & Gen Z don't care about tribe. Most care about chemistry & common ground. Tribal worship has been one of the ugliest vices in Kenyan history, especially politically. Very glad to witness Kenyans disassociating with these tribal nonsense.
But culturally, they are very similar. GEMA is a political group. Linguistically, culturally and genetically, Kambas are another Thagicu/Central Kenya Bantu Group.
Dez ameifungua kidogo, I've been thinking about this. Take away Western style democracy, sijui majority votes get President etc then the intensity of ethnic rivalries isn't the same. I don't think the presidential system is working for Kenya.
On Dez point of a child leaning more to the mom's tribe and not the dad in an intertribal marriage, we need to verify that. Most people identify with the Dad's side, you actually end up to the Dad's village, and so forth. As for the marriage, I agree that when they wed it will be at the lady's church, but once they marry, depending on the guy's faith, mostly the family moves to the dad's church.
Even for Kikuyus. When a woman gets married, she 'moves' to the husbands home and the children born belong to the father's clan (Múhíríga) and not the mother's clan. Even church, the woman moves to the husband's church. But I guess being born, raised and living in the city a person may not fully understand this because they don't get to see these traditions in practice.
He's talking about reality. The maternal advantage does exist, people connect with their mother's side more, on average. In cross tribal marriages, this can still hold true, especially in a country like Kenya where AGikuyus enjoy some form of dominance.
I agree with Sharon,tribalism isn't something that comes in by choice you just find yourself naturally relating and been attracted to a specific tribe , because that's home ,you understand each other because you basically have the same cultural background. It's different for Dez and he can't quite agree with Sharon because for him growing up he grew in a diversified home so for him there existed no tribal lines
We definitely need a part two! The conversation felt like it was just hitting its stride when it ended. Let's explore the other side of the coin: people who wouldn't consider marrying within their own tribe. This could be due to cultural practices that restrict women's roles and perpetuate unfair treatment under the guise of tradition.
love this!
This sounds interesting. I'm now curious to learn more, hope they include this too.
This is a great idea
Thanks for sharing!
I’m a luo na sijawai sikia izi story za Julia aki 😭😭😭😭Enyewe we needed this conversations to remove these tribal myths
😂😂😂 Julia's vulnerability makes you wanna open up immediately! Appreciate this episode as it demystifies some cultural myths ❤
There is a political notion that kenyans believe that economically luo are really struggling and kikuyus are really thriving
The irony is i have interracted with well to do luo's who believe they are oppressed and poor kikuyus who think they are superior. 😅 the power of politics !!!
Part 2 definitely enjoyed the conversation
It's not entirely a political notion, there's some truth to it. The Gikuyu elite class thrives more and if there's an actual Kenyan middle class, if it exists, it is saturated by Gikuyus.
HDI wise and GDP per Capita, Central Kenyan counties lead.
They have ruled Kenya for 35 years, it comes with perks, and they are better off than most Kenyan communities.
@@thedante7722it’s not true it’s a stereotype like all stereotypes it’s to put one people
Down
@NileGoddess How many Luos own businesses like Kikuyus? Banks, schools. Nyeri is 153km from the capital, yet the living standards of this sleepy town is higher than Kisumu. Almost RUclips girlies you watch as a Kenyan are Kikuyu. Dominating certain aspects of the Kenyan state comes with its perks.
Love the discussion so far! To Sharon’s point on dating Kikuyu’s in the UK, I’ve been living in the UK for nearly 8 years now and 90% of the Kenyans I run into, have been Kikuyu. 😂 To the extent that when I meet Kenyans in the UK, my first assumption is that they are probably Kikuyus. I think Dez’s statistics point on Kikuyus being the majority in Nairobi, also stands in the UK.
We definitely need a part 2🎉. This is the first time I'm listening to such an important and sensitive matter being discussed in such a beautiful and open way. Thank you Jules and Sharon❤❤
Thanks so much for watching!
Yes we need a part two, the Magunga left us in suspense.
Haha Magunga. Hitting the nail on the head. Love the conversation. Dez has a good voice, Magunga speaks realistically & Jules looks lovely❤❤.
Na Sharon umemuwacha wapi?😄 anyway just kidding. And Sharon is beautiful and eloquent. 👌
Some 👍 pkease for those who want a part 2
Dare to discuss the topics we shy from as a society 🎉❤
So glad to see you guys covering this topic. This is really important, and I loved that you were able to clear up some dodgy myths and stereotypes. I feel that there was room for a more nuanced discussion on why people end up gravitating towards their own, or 'allied' ethnic groups. This would have possibly led to a more honest discussion on tribalism beyond 'oh I only notice tribalism during elections'. First of all, ethnicity in Kenya, (like in any other society), intersects with socioeconomic status, political power, religion and other demographic factors. For example, if you think about Kikuyu's proximity to the colonial administration, there were certain benefits that have to be honestly evaluated. One mentioned was the fact that Nairobi is in Central Province. Post independence these benefits culminated in greater access to the state apparatus and therefore greater political and economic power. It also offered more opportunities to pursue education and professional development ( both at home and abroad). It is precisely because of this privilege that the middle, upper-middle and upper classes in Kenya are predominantly Kikuyu - (or Luo or Kalenjin, not picking on anyone just using this example) . And being that we tend to date people within our social circles - who we went to school with, church with, whose parents are friends with ours etc - it makes sense that Sharon for example has 'inadvertently' only dated Kikuyus. If we add tribalism and human nature (we stick to the familiar and create in-groups and outgroups) this means we can end up 'unconsciously unaware' of how homogenous our social circles are. As someone who has grown up as a product of an intertribal union (not Kikuyu or Luo), this was not lost on me as a grew up. It is very easy to see how these structures operate when most of your classmates are from the big 3 (Kikuyu, Luo, Kalenjin) and you are not. These demographic patterns are not coincidental, but a reflection of the inequities created during colonialism and which were entrenched in the post-independence era.
We really need a part two. I really love Dez, He should be back again.
The Kenyan urge to say 'Wacha alie hio kitu imtoke'😂 great episode!
Totally need a part 2
This was open and wholesome
Dez his voice and temperament 🔥🔥🔥🔥🤌🏾🤌🏾🤌🏾
😅
Tricky😂😂😂@@clairenakasi8042
Would be great to have this conversation with a Maasai among the panelists.They are the most culturally intact community and would have totally different dimensions to this
Such a good idea
Hmm… that could be interesting. Will consider it 😊
🤣also a tribe that does not intermarry very much
A part 2 is definitely needed... The conversation was just beginning
Such conversations are what we need in podcasts, I love it.
I feel like this conversation isn't over 😅can we have a part two please?
Yes definitely!
So happy to see Dez in action and in the flesh..
Good stuff!
Aki Dez anaongea vizuri. Gatho!
Wueh i feel like this episode was made squarely for me. What i faced n still facing is designer, n the devil is a liar.... he manages to give you episodes that make such things seem reality especially during conflict in the rship. Ghai mi i kent mazee
I cry too when I'm angry 😊. It's not an emotion I express well.
I agree with Sharon,tribalism isn't something that comes in by choice you just find yourself naturally relating and been attracted to a specific tribe , because that's home ,you understand each other because you basically have the same cultural background.
It's different for Dez and he can't quite agree with Sharon because for him growing up he grew in a diversified home so for him there existed no tribal lines
I think it's not just a tribal thing. It can be seen even in social classes and races. We all want to belong
This a part two guys. Try and focus the talking points to avoid deviation. Thanks a lot for starting this conversation..
This was a very interesting conversation. Would really love to hear a part 2. I’m a non- Kenyan African who married a Kikuyu man after meeting overseas. Met a lot of Kenyans since we started dating and was really surprised at how much tribes/ tribalism plays a role in every day life. Would love to hear more.
Magunga is soo cool and straight to the point. Ni ukweli thats the stereotype of what we are told about Kikuyus.
Sharon was left hanging when she asked about consent... I was waiting for that to be clarified, because its one of the things we grew up hearing. part 2 please, because the assumption that if a particular tribe is in power the whole tribe gets an untapped access to wealth and money straight from statehouse still puzzles me. As only those in the actual appointed posts benefit as we are witnessing with the floods, taxes, poor roads, high cost of living etc
Consent yes! It’s not a must.
Sure no tribe benefits as a result of their leader occupying StateHouse but Kenyans still vote and marry along tribal lines,tribalism is a curse of many generations to come🥺🥺🥺
But the tribe in power does benefit. Access to government jobs just because of your tribe will affect your family positively
I'm loving the episode so far but lemme do a fact check: GEMA is Gikuyu, Embu, Meru Association (GEMA).
This is such an amazing conversation we should continue having, especially for us to normalize these conversations and not just having them during elections.
Please do a Part 2 with Dez and Magunga and maybe make this an ongoing conversations
What are the origins of GEMA? E.g. who first came up with the term, or was there a real association(like a political one at some point?)?
This is an important conversation that can go in so many directions. There's the political aspect of course . There's also the legacy of colonialism because even though traditionally tribes had conflict, colonialism created even more division.
Finally there is the idea that tribe just like race is a social construct. But the differences we feel in whatever group we belong are so strong we view the "others" as almost a different species.
@@susanw497 GEMA is actually a geo-political group. The geography helped include and exclude other communities especially during the political/election season. Yes we should definitely keep this conversation going.
WOW! I did that Sharon test “tell me your luo friend” and indeed I can off the top of my head name luo, kikuyu, kamba, kalenjin (grew up in Eld) and obviously luhya (that’s what I am) and a little bit even miji kenda friends picked up over the years at like school and work and church. So interesting that it’s possible that most of someone’s friends can be people from their tribe without that person intentionally filtering out the rest of the tribes…
Coming late to this. I also grew up in Nai & have countable Kikuyu friends. Because I surrounded myself from Primary school with other tribes so yes you should be intentional in bringing diversity as it also helps you extend cultural knowledge & also helps build your understanding of your own culture
It is always wonderful listening to another rich impactful conversation. Can't wait for the next .
As a south African ,us Bapedi and Zulu dont get along on paper 😂😂but in real life there is a huge percentage of Marriages .
I love this conversation, really eye opening.
48:29 THAT PART!!! I love Dez's outro🔥👌🏾.
PART TWOOOOOO PLEASE
I am listening to this and all the stereotypes about kikuyu are similar for banyankore/bahima in Uganda.😅 So hilarious. 😆
Even the Baganda🤣🤣🤣
I hope they'll be a part 2...loved this conversation...we need more of them
Part 2 this is so helpful as someone in a long term relationship with a luo am a kamba😂
Such a deep conversation. I wished it was longer.
Ok just starting watching but can we please hear it for the magungo’s sequin moment?! Love sequins on a man! Yes!
Yaaaaasss 💃🏾💃🏾💃🏾
Finally we get to see Dez 👏🏾😍 Such an interesting & important episode 🤗
Thanks for tuning in 😊😊
Interesting . I am watching from Namibia 🇳🇦 ❤❤
I loved the episode. I think us mixed tribal babies, we are more open minded because we have two sides, so tribal issues are not something we look at in friendships and relationships because of how we were raised.
Not really,I know of friends who are mixed and prefer one tribe to the other.
Part 2...please
Can we also have conversations around colourism next
I wish it were longer🤩🤩🔥🔥
As a kikuyu babe dating and almost getting married to a luo man, the journey has been easy-going. Both our parents are open-minded and trust our decision to do life together. One of the major family elements I noticed was that of communism as simple as eating together like we cook for 20 people when we go to their shags.
All in all, I've come to appreciate the differences, and we've set boundaries both ways.
Ps:we watched the conversation with him he thinks that the guy didnt like Esther as some of the things were a lie.
This is so positive! Love to hear it
And interesting take 👌🏾
I loved loved loved this episode ❤
Part 2 aki
I even had to do the visual episode today... I've always dated within my tribe only recently have I branched out and I can't help but do it from a point of impending doom. Like will this work, will I be accepted. Is it even serious, are we just passing time waiting for the 'ideal' partner. I remember being younger and thinking I'd never date outside my tribe cause I'd feel left out of and targeted in communication. Especially from a lady's POV the acceptance from your partners side seems to carry heavy weight. Can't wait to hear if it's the same for men. It's really alot we are glad someone is talking about it.
Food for thought- there are podcasts covering Emotional Intelligence that can help in self -management and being self-aware, especially in professional settings, and when things go south in our daily lives. Follow the EI podcast by Angela Mwihaki, and so many insightful conversations.
Oh amazing! Thanks for sharing :)
9:18 - It really is related today; right there with you, Sharon. Is this really strength or are we leaving room for further narcissistic abuse?
If, by any chance Esther is reading, the gents are right. We’re wired to provide and protect. Can’t do both at the same time all the time and yes, cultures must be respected, but it is also true that ‘manners maketh man.’
we definitely nee part two
Nairobi was not Maasai land, only. It was Gikuyu, Kamba, and Maasai land. In fact, if we look at colonial documents, the Brits recorded land transfers from Gikuyus to themselves when 'buying up' Nairobi. A lot of those land titles of what came to be Nairobi very early on had a lot of Gikuyu names.
Its just cliche to say Nairobi is Maasais land, but its complicated.
The reason it's said Nairobi was Maasai land was first because of the name, kikuyus also occupied major environs next to Nairobi like Kiambu, Juja and areas along Waiyaki way. The Maasai were mostly pastoralists and thus did not reside at any particular place for long and that's why you'll find that maasai are said to have many places named in words that trace back to their language.
@@kafunkyy Parts of Mt Kenya are in the Maasai language. i.e, Lenana Peak. was Lenana Peak Maasai land? Some places in Nairobi that have Maasai names was simply because the white man used the Maasai name for naming purposes and means nothing about the people who lived there.
@@thedante7722 Like you said its complicated because what not been considered is that there was a large population of Kikuyu speaking Masaai's who extended from areas as far as Nyeri through Nairobi , all the way to parts of Kajiado , there also a sizeable population of Maa speaking kikuyu - During precolonial times the language one spoke was not a very important marker of their ethnic identity.
Informative session, looking forward to part II
Spot on Dez.
First things forward, ive been raised not tribal. For me every one is equal the difference is a spectrum of colors which for me was beautiful.
Long story short, Im still healing from the trauma of dating a keiyo for over 3 years. Guy impregnated fellow tribe and dumped me like hot charcoal. From experience, the situation has conditioned me to my tribe or no relationship at all.
So sorry😘
What's a Keiyo??
@@winnieonyango8108 Asanti
Taking it one day at a time
@@catherinenjoka2467 Kalenjin sub group
@catherinenjoka2467 it's a kalenjin subtribe if am not wrong wr wrong wr
Born and raised in Umoja here. From a Luyo dad and Kikuyu mum. Ethnicity is just one part of your identity, tuko na mingi (age, sex, race, wealth, occupation, nationality, character, income)
.in high school I saw people from across ethnic groups and races. midway through uni I decided that anytime I'm single, I'll interact with everyone who I vibe with but I only get to know a lady more if they're from luo/luhya nyanza (I'm from Butere). I noticed that relationships where the lady is from the region I'm from are more deep, family to family interactions flow better. ikiwa ivi pia we're able to relate in terms of region specific challenges, family challenges, etc.
Si ati disagreements aren't there or that we will be a good match.
kumbuka if you're born and raised in a multicultural place like Nairobi, when things get serious with someone, you'll want to be there for each other, travel to each other's ancestral places, relocate from time to time. It's easier knowing that you're optimistic going where she's from and she's optimistic going where you're from.
basically agree with Esther from story ya Jules, ethnic differences make things harder na kaa si ivo, wasee wengi wako na perception that things will be harder mkifanya inter ethnic union
boundaries lazima whether you're going interethnic or intraethnic
Heeeeeey loved loved thisssss😍
Please do part 2
Esther was thoroughly lied to or prejudiced.....
And she scared Jules with these lies😢
Aaah, Esther and Jonathan just didn't enforce boundaries in their union. Also, I don't see any cultural connotation to this brother story. She didn't share the actual cause of this disfunctionality in their marriage.
Yeah sure I guess infidelity was a cause
Dez has a fine voice. will there be a part 2?
In Uganda we take after our father’s tribe
Same to Kenya
I am dating this guy that I really love but I know we won't get married because his from a different tribe and on top of that he is a Muslim and I am Christian, 😭💔
Allow me to say this having experienced the religious difference. Please leave that man alone... he won't marry you unless you convert and he knows so no matter how much he says or shows he loves you you guys won't end up togethet
@@dorothykanana2623sure she is wasting her time,let her date a fellow christian
I agree with Dez
Great episode!
so good!
Not stupidity and biases, facts
Love this topic.
The A in GEMA stands for Ambeere
Ooh
Indeed the closer to the mountain you are geneologocally likely some amharic mix in there.
It's primarily Southern Cushitic, followed by waves of Eastern Cushites like Oromos. If you take a DNA test, this DNA will cluster close to Amharas, but most of the time, it won't be directly from them.
Every Central Kenya Bantu has this Cushitic DNA to varying degrees, and this includes Kambas.
GEMA/Thagicus/Central Kenya Bantus started mixing with these groups before they settled in the Mountain/split into current groups.
@@thedante7722 All major populations in Kenya not just central kenya have some measure of southern cushitic ancestry -- its just matter of degree. Central Kenyans average 30% , western Kenyans 5-9% , Nilohamtics( masaai,Kalejin,samburu) depending on groupings as small as clans range from 30-60%. Southern Cushite's and NIlohamites are the oldest inhabitants of present day Kenya - so migrating bantu and Luo societies would have definitely intermarried with the locals they found. Basically people like Somali's whom our law enforcement harasses about citizenship issues are more indigenous to Kenya than all Bantu and Luo groups.
@@commonsense6797 Somalis are not indigenous and don't come into Kenya en mass untill the 1800s. They're called Eastern Cushites for a reason, and Somaliods like Rendilles, that are barely 100k, are not Somalis.
And them being harassed is besides the point. They're a threat to the Kenyan identity and can ravage the country with their Wahhabist clanist mentality just as they ravaged the Bantus, Oromos and Swahilis in Jubaland and turned once a aile of co-existence into the hellhole that it is.
"Police harass Somalis" Bantus in Jubaland have endured far worse despite having been there for the longest than Somalis. That identity is problematic and should be erased. There was no Somali in the South before the 1800s.
@@commonsense6797 Somalis are barely indigenous. We found Southern Cushites, and have been mixed with them for as far back as 1000 years. My Cushitic DNA has more claim to this land than a Somali from the North, or Samaale from Yemen as they have it in their mythology.
@@thedante7722I am assuming 'we' is central highland Bantu . if you follow migratory patterns ; by the time Bantu arrive in the central highlands , southern Cushitic's and Sudanic Nilotics have been completely integrated - basically the people they find are mostly a hybrid between Nilotics & southern Cushite's ; pure southern Cushite's at this time are only found in Tanzania - groups like Iraqw. The central highland Bantu get the southern cushitic component of their Dna more through intermarriage with with Nilohamites than anything else -- that's why the resultant cultural influence on the Bantu like circumcision(of both sexes) ,hair styling, age set grouping etc is Nilohamitic culture, not southern cushitic culture. Meanwhile the presence of eastern Cushite's (Somali etc) has always been there in Kenya -- likely not in the central highlands but neighboring areas - not surprising because both share a common Cushitic ancestor. Somali's predate Bantu's and Nyanza Luo's in Kenya - that's just a fact .
On pseudo accounts; it is an interesting topic for me, because I created this email I use here with a generic name so that I could hide my real identity. I work for an intergovernmental organisation, and what I write and say could be used against me in my job or derail my future opportunities, since the job requires diplomacy at all times, in and out of work. However, I am against pseudo accounts for trolling creators and other users.
Ooh that makes sense 💡
Inter tribal dating is not a major problem like it used to be. Especially with the larger tribes, majority of Millenials & Gen Z don't care about tribe. Most care about chemistry & common ground. Tribal worship has been one of the ugliest vices in Kenyan history, especially politically. Very glad to witness Kenyans disassociating with these tribal nonsense.
Obviously Dez upbringing is not the same as those born and raised in Kikuyu land mashaba
kamba is not a gema member ... GEMA is primarily mt kenya people ...
But culturally, they are very similar. GEMA is a political group. Linguistically, culturally and genetically, Kambas are another Thagicu/Central Kenya Bantu Group.
A..is for association
Dez ameifungua kidogo, I've been thinking about this. Take away Western style democracy, sijui majority votes get President etc then the intensity of ethnic rivalries isn't the same. I don't think the presidential system is working for Kenya.
That heavy cushite and nilote blood among kikuyus made me trace my genes on that side and wueh! This tribe thing is largely a foreign construct.
I thought GEMA was Gikuyu, Embu, Meru Association (GEMA) haiya nimeenda basi😂
Thats a culture every where in Uganda you have to sleep in the same room with the dead person
NAAAAAYEEEEE like everywhere in Uganda???? There is a specific tribe that does, that you know or you have ever seen? Because i have never seen it
On Dez point of a child leaning more to the mom's tribe and not the dad in an intertribal marriage, we need to verify that. Most people identify with the Dad's side, you actually end up to the Dad's village, and so forth. As for the marriage, I agree that when they wed it will be at the lady's church, but once they marry, depending on the guy's faith, mostly the family moves to the dad's church.
1:04:30 😅
The tribe had nothing to do with this her husband clearly lacked boundaries
I am shocked that Julia has got all this myths and me i thought shes wok,aiii,nimeabika
Most of what you’re saying isn’t common across the community. This is the family. Those are very outdated cultures.
Can Dez please let people talk ai
Dez's thoughts on mother tongue is flawed. In Kalenjin, you follow the side of your dad so you identify with your dad's side..
Most of the Western side of Kenya cause also Luhyas, Kisiis and Luos it’s the same… fathers side.
Even for Kikuyus. When a woman gets married, she 'moves' to the husbands home and the children born belong to the father's clan (Múhíríga) and not the mother's clan. Even church, the woman moves to the husband's church.
But I guess being born, raised and living in the city a person may not fully understand this because they don't get to see these traditions in practice.
He's talking about reality. The maternal advantage does exist, people connect with their mother's side more, on average. In cross tribal marriages, this can still hold true, especially in a country like Kenya where AGikuyus enjoy some form of dominance.
I agree with Sharon,tribalism isn't something that comes in by choice you just find yourself naturally relating and been attracted to a specific tribe , because that's home ,you understand each other because you basically have the same cultural background.
It's different for Dez and he can't quite agree with Sharon because for him growing up he grew in a diversified home so for him there existed no tribal lines